Posts by Coded Logic

40

Next steps for the Austrailian Royal Commission

by Coded Logic in

since the watchtowers' lawyers have (a) failed to make any recommendations to the arc that would bring the watchtower up to date with "best practices and procedures" (b) have failed to submit a proposal for victim restitution (c) have failed to secure funding for a redress scheme and (d) have completely dismissed all the arcs' findings - what's the royal commission's next course of action?.

i see two possibilities:.

) negotiate a settlement with the watchtower.

Coded Logic

Smiddy; Freddo; Shepherdless; Listener; Talesin,

Thanks for clarifying the ARCs role as an advisory group. I wonder how many lawsuits we'll see against the Watchtower in the next four to five years? Sounds like a PR nightmare coming their way.

40

Next steps for the Austrailian Royal Commission

by Coded Logic in

since the watchtowers' lawyers have (a) failed to make any recommendations to the arc that would bring the watchtower up to date with "best practices and procedures" (b) have failed to submit a proposal for victim restitution (c) have failed to secure funding for a redress scheme and (d) have completely dismissed all the arcs' findings - what's the royal commission's next course of action?.

i see two possibilities:.

) negotiate a settlement with the watchtower.

Coded Logic

TGND,

I think your timeframe is right. We wont see the legal repercussions from the ARC for at least a year or two. But it WILL come.

Zeb,

I hadn't really considered the idea that the Watchtower might close their branch in Australia. That'd be pretty damning. If they cut their loses there could we see the same thing happen with the investigations in the UK and Canada with those branches closing too? That's a nice thought.

Mephis,

I think what you said is perhaps the best case scenario. It would be nice if the courts were given some real teeth by legislature to deal with the Watchtowers disgusting policies.

SD,

In all fairness, I don't think the commission is going to allow themselves to be strung along. They were so on top of the hearings and so aware of the cheap tactics and double talk the Watchtower uses it was amazing. No doubt they'll use the same discretion when dealing with the Witnesses in the future.

40

Next steps for the Austrailian Royal Commission

by Coded Logic in

since the watchtowers' lawyers have (a) failed to make any recommendations to the arc that would bring the watchtower up to date with "best practices and procedures" (b) have failed to submit a proposal for victim restitution (c) have failed to secure funding for a redress scheme and (d) have completely dismissed all the arcs' findings - what's the royal commission's next course of action?.

i see two possibilities:.

) negotiate a settlement with the watchtower.

Coded Logic

Since the Watchtowers' lawyers have (A) failed to make any recommendations to the ARC that would bring the Watchtower up to date with "best practices and procedures" (B) have failed to submit a proposal for victim restitution (C) have failed to secure funding for a redress scheme and (D) have completely dismissed all the ARCs' findings - what's the Royal Commission's next course of action?

I see two possibilities:

1.) Negotiate a settlement with the Watchtower

2.) File a lawsuit in the Federal Circuit Court of Australia against the Watchtower

.

I find the first option unlikely since Justice Peter McClellan specifically wanted the Watchtower to submit ideas to the Court on how the Jehovah's Witnesses could best come up to date with Best Practices and Procedures and said he was not interested in having the Court assign changes to the Watchtower. McClellan said that the Court would then review the proposed changes and see if they met the Court's standards. I think this was a very pragmatic approach by the Justice as it forced the Watchtower to admit they could be doing more and, simultaneously, avoided a drawn out scenario in which the Court would make recommendations and then the Watchtower would shoot them down one by one claiming they were not practical to implement or were not in keeping with their religious beliefs.

Another reason I feel negotiating a settlement with the Watchtower is unlikely is because the Watchtower has rejected almost every single finding of the ARC. Until such a time as the Watchtower can admit they have a problem it would be nearly impossible to broker any real change within the Society or get them to pay out millions of dollars to victims in a redress scheme.

.

And this brings us to the second option - a Federal Lawsuit. I find it impossible to believe the ARC is just going to sit on its hands as the Watchtower does nothing to change. I find a lawsuit quite likely at this point because the Commission has been collecting evidence and testimony from hundreds of JWs who have been abused in Australia. It seems to me they're taking the necessary time to put together a massive federal case.

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/458960001/update-on-royal-commission-child-sex-abuse-inquiry-hears-4000th-testimony

Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts on what might happen. I'm really interested what you guys think might happen with the ARC? And if this does become a federal case - what will it do to the R&F?

29

Gay advice from the Governing Body

by Listener in

according to them you are not gay if you are attracted to the same sex, it's just hormones and you might grow out of it.. i wonder what hormones in particular they are talking about and if they feel that a female who goes through menopause is in danger of turning gay or even if taking hormones will adjust your thinking?.

this is from the wt org website.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/teenagers/ask/pressure-to-be-gay/.

Coded Logic

Only 30 years old. I'm sure I'll grow out of this phase any day now . . .

25

Is a piano inevitable?

by slimboyfat in

i was at a concert last night and the presence and stature of the piano struck me.

and i thought: if the piano wasn't invented when it was, would it have been invented by someone else instead?

or if there was a world the same as our, except with a different history, would it have pianos now too or would it be modern world, similar in many respects, only without pianos?

Coded Logic

It's an interesting question. But there's really only a couple of types of instruments:

Brass

Strings

Percussion

Woodwind

However, the harpsichord and the piano are unique in that they're a stringed instrument that is not plucked or bowed. Instead, they're struck with a hammer. I feel the only "new" instrument over the past few hundred years has been the computer. You can take a sound sampling from anything - or create one entirely - and make whatever musical note you want with it.

I agree that the piano was inevitable. Though I can't help but wonder what musical devices have yet to be discovered.

54

Things JW's and Atheists have in common

by juandefiero in

i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.

to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.

i realized, atheists believe these things too!.

Coded Logic

Their belief that physical resurrection involves the reassembly of atoms in a particular configuration to recreate the person or soul.
-SBF

I've never heard this one. Though I have heard the complete opposite - that we will get new bodies. Can you cite a source please?

Their rejection of an omnipresent God.

This is not true. JWs believe God sees everything and can interact anywhere at anytime. I think some religions might take it one step further - in that God is "in" everything - but lacking that position is not a rejection of omnipresence.

Their rejection of modern day miracles and divine revelation.

Firstly, I'm not sure why it matters if they believe this is happening "modern day" or not. Believing in only ancient miracles and divine revelation doesn't make them materialists. But either way, JWs do believe that God actively intervenes in their lives. They regularly pray to have God to change their circumstances. They believe their preaching work is guided by the angels. And they believe that every single quick build is a miracle too (I'm not exaggerating here).

Not to mention that JWs are some of the most superstitious people I have ever met. They believe that watching scary movies can let demons into their house and that coming to THIS WEBSITE will let Satan into their minds.

I agree with you that JWs are very different from mainline Christianity. And that the meetings are very cold, corporate, and stunt emotional and intellectual growth. But that doesn't mean they are materialists.

I have the feeling you think that's what "materialism" is. Something heartless and computer like. But that's not the case at all. I would encourage you to check out my thread on this topic: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/27300001/spirituality-science

P.S. I'm a materialist as far as I believe there is an objective reality and I believe there are truths to be learned about that reality. But I don't claim "material is all there is" - only that material is all we're currently justified in believing.

54

Things JW's and Atheists have in common

by juandefiero in

i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.

to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.

i realized, atheists believe these things too!.

Coded Logic

JWs are materialists
-SBF

Not remotely. JWs believe in:

1.) Spectral Evidence. They believe that information can be relayed through divine interpretation and personal revelation (e.g. Moses, Daniel, Paul, and the Governing Body).

2.) Supernatural Causation. They believe that the universe was created by a supreme being and they also believe that being uses supernatural powers to influence events within the universe (i.e. the holy spirit).

3.) Supernatural Realm. They believe that both Heaven and Tartarus are places that exist outside of the universe and are not bound to the physical laws of our universe.

4.) Supernatural Beings. They believe in the existence of Angels, Archangels, Demons, the Devil, and an all powerful God.

JWs are the complete opposite of materialists. Where physical evidence conflicts with their beliefs (e.g. evolution) they choose their beliefs over the evidence. And people who are materialists do not believe in spectral evidence, supernatural causation, a supernatural realm, or in supernatural beings.

Slimboyfat is a troll. He will say anything he thinks will get atheists/agnostics/non-believers riled up. He's not remotely interested if his claims are true or not.

1

The Journey for Answers

by Coded Logic in

"-there's a woman here who wants to-".

"god done it.".

Coded Logic

bump

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Coded Logic

What is the Alternative to JW?

The alternative is to roll up your sleeves and get to work. Stop being lazy. Stop wasting your life by putting everything off to the "new system". Start learning. Start educating yourself. Start pursuing the things that are of interest to you and the things that give you personal fulfillment.

There's no short cut. There's no one person or one organization that holds the sum total of all truth claims. If you want to know what is true about the world around you then you're going to have to investigate that world. You're going to have to read a lot of books, read a lot of academic papers, and engage in honest debates. You're going to have to travel and meet new people.

Knowledge is like a mountain. The more you know the higher you ascend. And the higher you ascend the further you can see. Expand your mind. Refine your critical thinking skills. Take a class on epistemology.

What's the alternative to JW? How about truth for one. How about personal identity. How about a life worth living.

1

The Journey for Answers

by Coded Logic in

"-there's a woman here who wants to-".

"god done it.".

Coded Logic

The ancient iron hinges, with a loud and unsettling groan which echoed throughout the whole courtyard and swept over the tops of the ramparts, swung a massive pair of timber doors wide ajar. At its entrance stood the fair Yoshiko who, for a moment, paused dauntedly. The weight of her journey to the edge of the world was quickly catching up with her. It had left her clothes tattered, her feet covered in dozens of open sores, and her mind presently susceptible to a range of doubts which she had never before entertained. What if I fail? What if I don't get the answers to the burning questions I've wondered my entire life? What would my family think? What would my village say?

At her feet the wind stirred up the leaves and sent them swirling over the cobblestones while they rustled in tune with the cherry trees that encircled this enclosure. It was a peaceful moment and Yoshiko took the time to steel her mind. She inhaled a deep breath, adjusted her haversack across her shoulder, and then marched across the courtyard to the Stairway of the Clouds. Making her way up would be no easy task. The path was steep, the steps were unleveled, it was exposed on both sides and wound erratically left and right as it ascended the unprotected mountainside.

Halfway up she stopped to eat the last remaining food from her haversack and twice she had to stray off the stairway in search of water. All the while being cautious of every footstep - for even a momentary imbalance would likely send her sailing off the side of the mountain. But, after much grunting and groaning and cursing the thinning air as a full day's climb wore on, she finally reached the Sacred Double-Wide at the top.

Yoshiko's eyes began watering upon the sight of it. She had read all the stories but had never expected it to be this beautiful. It was truly a sight to behold with its cheap plastic siding that had a horizontal brown stripe going across the whole side of the trailer, the broken window towards the back that had been replaced with cardboard, and the red and white beer cans that littered the front yard - it was almost too much for her to take in.

Not hesitating a moment even to catch her breath, Yoshiko excitedly squeezed past the truck parked out front - a Ford pickup with a gun rack and a Metallica sticker - and made her way onto the patio. She rapped loudly on the aluminum door. A half second later a dog started barking from inside followed by a man's voice,

"God damnit Deliha! Will you shut your stupid dog up?!"

Yoshiko then heard a woman's voice reply, "Don't you yell at me! You know I didn't want that dumb ass dog of yours living here!"

The man's voice again, "Oh never mind I'll do it myself. Come-mere you stupid bitch . . ."

Yoshiko heard a soft "thud" followed by the sound of the dog whimpering.

". . . that'll teach you not to bark at the Goddamn door!"

There was silence for a moment and then the aluminum door opened outward. Standing in the doorway was a fat ugly man wearing a red flannel shirt and ripped blue jeans, "What do you want?"

"Hi, my name is Yoshiko, I am seeking the wise one can answer any question."

"Oh all right. Hey Deliha-"

"WHAT!"

"-there's a woman here who wants to-"

"Can't I watch Judge Judy in peace without you bothering me every two seconds!"

"There's a WOMAN HERE WHO WANTS TO SEE 'THE SACRED ONE'!"

"Oh . . . hold on a sec."

A moment later a woman came to the door dressed in a robe. Pulling the cigarette out of her mouth she motioned and said, "Come in - come in. Make yourself at home."

"Thank you. My name is Yoshiko, I appreciate your hospitality."

The woman said, "Eh, don't worry about it. I'll go grab Hill-Billy, he'll be glad to answer any questions you have."

A minute later a four year old boy severely in need of a bath wandered into the living room.

Yoshiko dropped to her knees and clasped her hands, "Oh Sacred One, I am so happy to see you! Is it true that you can answer any question?"

Hill-Billy grabbed a pair of his dinosaurs off the kitchen table, "Yeah."

"I am so happy! I have so many questions for you Sacred One, I don't even know where to begin!"

"Okay."

"Well, I guess I'll just start at the beginning then, how did the universe come to be?"

Hill-Billy bashed his two dinosaurs together, "God done it."

"Oh I see. It's so obvious now that I take a moment to think about it." Said Yoshiko, "Well what is the origin of life on our planet?"

"God done it."

"Oh, very interesting. I had no idea. Well then how did humanity form?"

"God done it."

"This is so insightful. As you know so much about the natural world perhaps you can answer some philosophical questions I have too. Like, how can our minds understand reality?"

"God done it."

"And how can brains create consciousness."

"God done it."

"Wow, I'm just completely blown away by how knowledgeable you are. I had heard you could answer any question but even I had my doubts. I am so glad the stories are true! And maybe you can even help us make our world a better place. Is there anyway we can get rid of war and violence and disease and death?"

"God's gonna done it."

"What? Really? Oh Sacred One, you have answered all my questions! I can now return to my village and share these amazing answers you have given me. Thank you so much."

"Okay."

And so it was that Yoshiko traveled to the edge of the world and had her deepest questions answered.

It is a meaningless panacea when we invent a god that can do anything and be anything. Because what serves as an answer to every question is an explanation of nothing.
-Matt Dillahunty